Understanding PHMSA’s Draft CO2 Pipeline Safety Rules: Webinar (1/28)

Deemmeris Debra’e Burns, a victim of the 2020 Denbury CO2 pipeline leak in Satartia, MS who has suffered health impacts to this day, addresses a public meeting of the U.S. DOT Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration in Des Moines, IA (June 2023)
The U.S. Dept. of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) has released long-awaited draft rules for carbon dioxide (CO2) pipelines, in the final days of the Biden administration. Join hosts Bold Alliance, Science and Environmental Health Network (SEHN), Illinois Coalition to Stop CO2 Pipelines, Dakota Rural Action (SD), Dakota Resource Council (ND), Food & Water Watch, CURE (MN), and Iowa Chapter of the Sierra Club, for an overview of the proposed new rules and discussion of their implications for impacted landowners and communities. Speakers will include Bill Caram from the Pipeline Safety Trust, and Paul Blackburn, attorney and pipeline expert with Bold Alliance.
- WHAT: Webinar – Understanding PHMSA’s Draft CO2 Pipeline Safety Rules
- WHEN: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 7:00 p.m. CT
- WHO: Bill Caram, Pipeline Safety Trust; Paul Blackburn, Bold Alliance
DRAFT PHMSA CO2 PIPELINE SAFETY RULES:
PHMSA Notice of Proposed Rulemaking for CO2 Pipelines - 2137-AF60PAUL BLACKBURN’S SLIDE PRESENTATION:
2025-01-28 Bold Presentation PHMSA Proposed CO2 Pipeline Safety RuleWEBINAR Q&A:
Craig Welbon 6:18 PM
You said 7.5 mile valve spacing. CO2 pipeline is 20 mile spacing. Does this force the Summit to add more valves?
Bill Caram 6:24 PM
I’m not familiar enough with Summit’s specific plans, but I believe this proposal would require more valves near High Consequence Areas than the current minimum regulations.
Jan Boudart NEIS 6:22 PM
Do you think the accident in Sataria was highly influential in making these rules?
Bill Caram 6:26 PM
Definitely! It’s also telling that PHMSA announced the initiation of this rulemaking at the same time they published the Satartia accident investigation report.
Anonymous attendee 6:23 PM
Jurisdiction question: If a facility plans to build a new smaller connector CO2 pipeline from their facility to an exisiting interstate one (eg Denbury/Exxon through MS/LA/TX), do PHMSA rules apply to the new connector line? Or only state rules? Is this called a gathering line?
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Anonymous attendee 6:26 PM
We have heard that Summit has ordered pipe already. If they are storing it outside, how will weather impact the strenght of that pipe?
Jess Mazour 7:52 PM
That is something we’ve asked PHMSA. Summit is currently being sued by Wellspun, the company that Summit contracted with for pipe. I don’t think we have an answer for this yet.
Amelia Vohs 6:27 PM
If the pipeline in Satartia was designed consistent with what is proposed in this rule, would that have reduced the impact of that rupture or the severity of that rupture?
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ted schettler 6:28 PM
what’s your sense about how these proposed rules would determine metal alloys used in CO2 pipelines and valves
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Anonymous attendee 6:30 PM
Do the rules require applicants to perform modeling of a rupture? And if so, which kind? If not (or not adequate enough) what should be we pushing for in terms of modeling requirements? (I’m thinking of the gold goose egg blogs). Thanks.
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Richard Stuckey 6:30 PM
Oil pipelines claim to be able to detect a 1% loss of product with computers. What percent can computers detect a loss of CO2, given the changes in density due to temperature and pressure changes?
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Jane Payfer 6:30 PM
with all these significant recommendations, and understanding the approval process will water them down, is there a way to calculate a risk assessment/stack rank on which ones are “must comply at 100%, vs 75% vs 50%? or perhaps create a probability and impact grid, to help us know what to prioritize? or is this an unrealistic/impossible to know request?
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Craig Welbon 6:36 PM
Is 48 inch depth low enough for frost line heaves.
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Pam Tate, Climate Reality Project 6:37 PM
Seems like 48 inches would not be enough for deep-rooted plants like trees.
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Pam Tate, Climate Reality Project 6:44 PM
Is the Trump Administration likely to scrap these safety guidelines, which are clearly stronger than anything that came before.
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Caitlin Golle, Iowa CCI (she/her) 6:45 PM
are there proposed requirements for what to do if the pipeline operators fail a pressure/spike test?
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Margaret 6:46 PM
Are there rules to say a company cannot install pipelines in geohazard areas.
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Anonymous attendee 6:46 PM
Many facilities are proposing to build facilities with carbon capture with nearby (within state) sequestration sites, that would necessitate some CO2 pipeline length. To what extent (if at all) would these rules apply to intRAstate pipelines (within state)? Is there any process that would push these rules to be adopted by state agencies?
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Margaret 6:50 PM
Are the records of these inspections and actions available to the public?
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Anonymous attendee 6:51 PM
Is this issue of farmers being told they have to cease activity on the easement because of loss of depth of cover, is that typically specified in easement agreements?
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Janet’s iPad 6:52 PM
Depth of cover maintenance is LANDOWNER’S expense? Currently but new rules would change that?
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Anonymous attendee 6:55 PM
Is the Summit proposal for dense phase CO2? Specifically in MN?
Bill Caram 6:56 PM
Yes, it is
Dale Lutz 6:57 PM
Will internal combustion engine safety vehicles operate in a low-oxygen CO2 pipeline leak? Supply electric vehicles?
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Margaret 6:57 PM
What about supplying electric vehicles for local response agencies since combustion engiines don’t work around CO2.
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Anonymous attendee 6:57 PM
Would the support for local first responders apply to existing pipelines?
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Lauren Godshall 6:58 PM
Are there depth requirements in the proposed rules for pipelines crossing under rivers/lakes?
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Kathleen Campbell 6:58 PM
In the EMS requirements I see no mention of all electric rescue vehicles which EMS will need but cannot afford.
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Lisa 6:59 PM
It says “may” include for safety equipment. Is it ultimately left to the pipeline operator’s discretion?
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Margaret 6:59 PM
Will these supplies and training be upgraded and continuing fo the life of the pipeline?
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Kathleen Campbell 7:00 PM
Another EMS concern is frostbite if they are close to the release. They are required to have fire resistant clothing but no frostbite protection.
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Margaret 7:01 PM
Any protections provided for farm animals?
Jess Mazour 8:17 PM
The rule does not address any specific protections for farm animals.
robert watts 7:02 PM
Soudn’t local training be required to be repeated at regular intervals due to local responders being volunteers?
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Anonymous attendee 7:02 PM
CO2 is also intoxicating. Intoxication can make it impossible for a person to take steps to protect themselves. Is that mentioned anywhere?
Jess Mazour 8:14 PM
Yes – intoxication is referenced as an outcome of concentrations of CO2.
Debi 7:04 PM
The pipeline is less than 300 feet from our house. It crosses the neighbors land. Where like our land there is 8 inches for top soil and them it will be in the aquafer. How can placing a pipeline into a aquafer that supplies 1000 gallons of water a minute be safe?
Jess Mazour 7:44 PM
We compeletly agree. Nothing about this is safe.
robert watts 7:06 PM
What is the definition of an HCA?
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Kathleen Campbell 7:09 PM
Unfortunately the plume modeling is only required for HCAs which are currently only 10% of CO2 pipelines. Does PHMSA requiring plume modeling for HCAs preclude by preemption the ability of states to require plume modeling for the entire pipeline to determine the safety of routing?
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Anonymous attendee 7:09 PM
Coming from Louisiana where many CO2 pipelines are proposed in the vulnerable coastal zone (southern thrid portion of the state). Is there any language about subsidence, storm surge/flooding, salinity, pH of soil that CO2 pipelines are proposed to be sited in?
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Margaret 7:11 PM
Any mention of how many or how far apart these will be?
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Don Johannsen 7:13 PM
Who will enfore and monitor compliance with these regulations? PHMSA or Summit?
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Anonymous attendee 7:14 PM
Are there pipeline quality/grade requirements? Are you familiar with this report? https://healthygulf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/CCS-and-Pipeline-Final-Report_Jansto_October-9th-1.pdf
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Louis Flores 7:15 PM
are computer leak detection systems FIBER OPTIC MONITORING? Is it safe or approved to have CO2 pipelines go underwater in order to cross a one mile wide river?
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Julie 7:16 PM
PHMSA’s defintion of “injury” seems far from helpful. Federal Employers’ Liabilty ACT (FELA) has a much more detailed definition. Do we have any hope of changing the defintion at this point?
Physical Harm – Any wound, fracture, sprain, or other bodily damage suffered by a railway worker while on duty.
Occupational Illness – Long-term health conditions caused by exposure to hazardous substances, repetitive motion, or other work-related factors.
Mental or Emotional Trauma – In some cases, psychological injuries such as PTSD may be considered if they result from workplace incidents.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions – If a work-related activity worsens an existing injury or condition, it may also be classified as an injury.
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kim JunkerUser1 7:16 PM
What recourse does a landowner have if the pipeline company refuses to take action to fix a problem? These companies are wealthy and can hire the best high paid lawyers and landowners can’t afford that luxury. I’ve heard of a pipeline that worked its way to the surface and the company told the landowner not to farm that area.
Jess Mazour 7:47 PM
It would depend on the state. Landowners on the Dakota Access route had to hire lawyers, file complaints with IUC and spend a lot of time to get problems fixed. One landowner had to take it all the way to court to prove his CSR score dropped from over 80 to under 25. That’s how he had to prove damages. The burden will be on the landowner.
Steven Jansto 7:16 PM
Thanks for a great presentation…Knowing the corrosion risks from contaminated CO2 waste gas, is it even feasible to construct such pipelines with API5L Grade 60 & 65 carbon steel pipelines? Should the materials engineering design consider alloy corrosion resistant grades to ensure highersafety performance and less risk? Dr. Steven G. Jansto
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Jan Boudart NEIS 7:17 PM
regardin storage of CO2. Do you think that a small increase in CO2 over a long period of time will affect human development in the area where this takes place?
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Kathleen Campbell 7:20 PM
They do have a timeline in the new guidelines for revaluating HCA designation periodically.
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Whitney Boyce 7:21 PM
Are schools considered HCA or is it just based on population density?
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Jan Boudart NEIS 7:21 PM
Tony Ingrffea’s diagrams of Methane leaks in NYC show that pipelines cannot be forbidden in highly populated areas. Are you aware of any rules or regs that deal with this situation?
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Sherri Webb 7:21 PM
Could you describe what the process is when the pipe is inspected, as just mentioned? Does that mean digging it up?
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Chris “PK” DiGiulio 7:22 PM
does 49cfr195 actually have a design feature as a metric ? beyond the integrit management? becasue the deisgn of the pipeline is in the ground – integrity managemnet adresses after the fact…..why would this be not something that changes whith liquified gases –
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Lora Snyder 7:25 PM
Will fire companies and EMS responders all be provided with electric fleet response vehicles for the 2 mile blast zone on either side of the pipe by the operator ? I would think this should be required all along the pipeline route .
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Holly Mirell 7:31 PM
What protections are there for those with mobility issues – ie seniors, disabled, young children?
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Anonymous attendee 7:32 PM
at what leval of co2 in parts per million do you need self contained air for first responders
Jess Mazour 8:00 PM
Here’s some info on when a respirator is required: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0103.html
MeLisa Elijah 7:34 PM
Do you have any idea what size of pipeline Summit intends to use across the 7 proposed states they want to invade? I have not been able to find the size of their pipeline and I’ve heard 8″ and 24″ that’s s HUGE difference.
Emma Schmit, Bold 7:37 PM
Actually 4 to 24 inches. I will email you the map!
Chris “PK” DiGiulio 7:37 PM
has anything been discussed about the proximity of pipelines to each other? What is the standard and why?
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Kathleen Campbell 7:39 PM
PHMSA states that frost heaves have cuased 82% of all cold weather damage incidents to gas pipelines 1984-2014,,,
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Lora Snyder 7:41 PM
With the Mariner East HVL pipeline , if one is converted to CO2 it will certainly take out the other pipes inches away in easement with any rupture
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Kathy Stockdale 7:51 PM
Sulphur had two pin prick let’s that were not caught on monitors in 2010,2011
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Robert Nazario 7:54 PM
Can the Trumo admin or new secretary of transportation send the new rules back to PHMSA for further review and additional items to be added.
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Anonymous attendee 8:00 PM
Will you/PST be providing talking points for what folks can comment on in this rule? What to support, what to improve, etc? We are connected to so many groups who are concerned about but who maybe don’t know exactly how to comment on this rule. A bulleted list would be great! Apologies if you already have one, and I just haven’t found it yet.
Jess Mazour 8:12 PM
Yes – we will make sure a talking points sheet gets put together and distributed out far and wide.
Robert Nazario 8:01 PM
having worked in the oil industry for 34 years, i would love to see more fail safe systems built in to any rules that companies will need to observe.
How can shipping (oil tankers) be under a tight microscope and strict regulations but land based pipeline infrastructure doesnt require similar rules.
We needed an appproved emergency response plans that had to be approved by the US Coast Guard and International Maritime Adminstration or other flag state authorities
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Robert Nazario 8:04 PM
IMO, International Maritime Organization not IMA
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Debi 8:13 PM
Is there any regulations on pipelines being place into a surface aquafer like we have in South Dakota
Emma Schmit, Bold 8:15 PM
Not that I’m aware of. Although, offshore pipelines have been proposed in places like the Gulf of Mexico — so not quite the same thing, but some similiarities.
Anonymous attendee 8:21 PM
I realize there’s no time, but what about all the CO2e emissions to produce all this pipeline steel?! Seems like it would cancel out the supposed captured CO2 that they’d be designed to transport….
Emma Schmit, Bold 8:24 PM
Exactly. There are various reports calculating this that show the % captured can be quite low when you factor in the amount of CO2 emitted by the technology.
Kathleen Campbell 8:22 PM
Thank you all for a very informative evening.